In this interview, we hear from author Karl Deenick on how church-life has been shaped and sharpened through COVID. Deenick recently published Gathered Together: The beauty of living as God’s church.
Sam Wan: During the pandemic Christians experienced an isolating and tumultuous period and sometimes being a part of a church wasn’t easy. There was a lot of pivoting and stress. How did you see the pandemic affect you, the congregation you were a part of, and expectations of gathering together?
Karl Deenick: Thanks Sam. I saw some really interesting and positive things coming out of COVID-19 that gave me pause for thought. For example, before churches were able to re-open, we had small groups of people meeting together in homes. It was interesting to see how people across demographics interacted in rich ways that they really hadn’t done before. For one, adults were praying and having discussions about spiritual things with the kids. Embarrassingly, too, it was also the first time that we’d thought much about equipping parents to be discipling their kids in their homes. We’d always believed that was important, but necessity finally made us do something about it. It made me realise how program-centric our vision of ministry had become.
But COVID also raised all kinds of questions because we couldn’t meet together in person and everything had to go online. For example, does the church have to meet together to be the church? Or, is celebrating the Lord’s Supper virtually, still the Lord’s Supper? COVID made me realise how passive and relationally thin our experience of Sunday gatherings had been. In some ways, I think we saw the result of that in the slowness of some people to return to in-person gatherings. In my limited experience, groups that were relationally “thick” returned quicker to in-person than those that were “thin.”
It made me realise that lots of church gatherings are an “in-person” equivalent of people sitting at home watching church on the couch—people might be physically present in the church building but relationally and functionally they are inhabiting a kind of invisible cubicle. You see it in the way that some churches fill up, with people sitting far apart from each other. Or to go back to the Lord’s Supper, the reason that Lord’s Supper online seemed so plausible, I think, is that most expressions of it in churches are very individualistic and isolated rather than relational and communal. We don’t talk to each other or even look at each other. Against that backdrop, church at home on a screen seems far more feasible.
SW: For some readers, they may feel a little bit burnt out with church over the last two years, and that’s the question they’re asking. What would you say to them?
I’d say, first of all, that God knows your pain and your struggle and that you can and should be honest with him about it. Pour out your heart to God. But also talk to others, especially those in your church. The near universal temptation for those struggling in churches is to withdraw, but that’s almost always the opposite of what we need to do. We need people around us to encourage us, comfort us and spur us on.
Lots of church gatherings are an “in-person” equivalent of people sitting at home watching church on the couch.
I’d also encourage them to think hard about rest. We often don’t think about rest in relation to church, but I think the two are connected. God has made us for rest, but rest isn’t only an individual activity, it’s a corporate activity. Perhaps ironically, at the heart of rest is taking Jesus’ yoke upon us. That sounds like hard work, but actually that’s where true rest is found. The problem is that means relinquishing our own hopes and aspirations. One of the things that meeting together with our fellow believers does, then, is it to forces us to leave behind our individual life hopes and ambitions and instead submit again to Jesus and his aspirations for our life.
That said, I think pastors and churches are not always good at making church a place of rest and revitalisation. The machinery of church needed to meet modern expectations of churchgoers makes that very difficult. We pile up ministry jobs. And while there are things that need to be done, I also believe we need to think hard about what we do and how we do it, so that gathering with God’s people can be balm to people’s harried souls rather than stepping onto yet another treadmill of busyness.
SW: Even in the best of times, being a Church community is not easy. There are squabbles, extraordinary members meetings that discuss the colour of the new seats, and emotional discussions. What has been reassuring for you in being a part of a community of God’s people?
Karl: It’s important to say that loving the fellow members of our church is God’s command to us. He calls us to do it. He also gives us the grace we need to be a part of his people.
That said, loving the other people in our church can be very costly. I sometimes say to people that being part of a church is a little bit like being married to 200 other people—there are 200 other people for whom your desires and wishes need to die.
We need to think hard about what we do and how we do it, so that gathering with God’s people can be balm to people’s harried souls.
But I remind myself of how much it cost Jesus to love the church—he willingly gave his life to save us. If that’s the case, why should I expect it to cost me anything less? Perhaps one of the hardest aspects of loving God’s people is when we pour ourselves out in love and they either don’t receive or outright reject our love. I might spend a lot of energy preparing for something that people then say is a waste of time. In those times, I’ve often tried to remind myself that the source of ongoing love for people is not found in receiving from them a satisfactory response to my love but in God’s overflowing love for me in Jesus.
I’ve also found it helpful to remember that there’s a reward ahead for the costly task of loving God’s church. A friend of mine was once asked by another pastor, “Will I bear the scars of ministry for all eternity?” My friend, after some considerable reflection, answered, “When you hear the words, “Well done, good and faithful servant”, all the pain of ministry will melt away.” Those words have been very helpful to me personally.
SW: One final question: what is your hope for Christians reading Gathered Together?
I think my greatest hope is that Christians will grow to love the church with all its difficulties but also with all its glories. As I’ve already said, Jesus loved the church enough to lay down his life for it. I hope Gathered Together book encourages Christians to do the same.
Sam Wan and Karl Deenick are both on staff at Sydney Missionary & Bible College.
